Building an ICF house

Windows

Bruce:

I've been following your building process for a while now. You've

gotten your windows installed so you've made the decision on who's to

install. However, I've missed who the window manufacture is. I'm

unable to tell by looking at the pictures. Would you please update the

site about who and why you picked what you did or point me to where I

missed the information.

Thanks,

Bruce

Vlado:

Hi Bruce. Thanks for your email. Well, you did not miss it. I deferred that update for a reason. But, now that you asked, here it comes:

Windows are fiberglass windows from Marvin, Integrity. It was not an easy decision and, at the time, it was not easy primarily because of their price. The other choice was vinyl windows from a local manufacturer. These other windows were less than half the price yet with similar energy savings features. To make it harder to decide, we have around 25 windows in our design. Marvin Integrity are supposedly quality windows with supposedly good customer support. This all from researching the Internet. I will not go into details, you can get the specs from manufacturer's website. Further research suggested that energy savings are pretty much the same across most manufacturers with the given set of features (argon, glazing, frame insulation). Marvin Integrity windows are fiberglass on the outside, meaning [allegedly] color will not fade as much over time due to UV exposure. Wood is on the inside, which is generally wanted and praised for its looks, but for us its insulating properties were more important. Marvin Integrity also carries 20-year warranty on insulating glass air seal, meaning argon should not leak over time. But then again, how would you know that your seal cracked and that you should call customer support line. As you can tell by now, it was a bit of an educated guess, a bit of a bet, and a bit a visit that I paid to a nearby construction site that had the other windows just installed - they were ok on the outside; acceptable, yet not as nice on the inside. During the course of making the decision, we went to Marvin showroom twice and we also went to other manufacturer's production facility. Closer inspection suggested Integrity was somewhat better built window but, then again, that is what one would expect at such a difference in price. Since this is one of those things that you cannot know until you experience it, our experience with Marvin Integrity will find its place on the page I am planning to add as we start living in the house.

Now on to the reason for deferring the update:

Our Marvin Integrity windows have since arrived and were installed. However, there is a visible difference between the color of grille-between-glass and the color of the window. We notified our builder, who in turn contacted Marvin and now we are waiting to see how this will be resolved. I guess the claimed Marvin customer support is put to the test. I will update the website with whether this is resolved to our satisfaction.

Regards,

Vlado

Hi Vlado,

My name is Dan Straus and I own and operate IsoMatrixx Building Products. We were the suppliers to your project of the Nudura ICF product and really enjoyed viewing your website on your project.

I just wanted to drop you a note to add a point to the "is it/is it not" environmentally friendly. I feel you missed one point in that an ICF home with monolithic concrete to the roof will potentially stand for 2,000 years. You pointed out that it was a 50 year old home that was demolished and if you had built again with wood frame then that house might make a hundred years and have to be torn down and rebuilt again...and then again....and then again....

So you are not just saving the trees for one house but potentially 20 houses and along with that 50% energy savings for many years to come. You made a great choice! Congratulations.

Regards,

Dan Straus

IsoMatrixx Building Products

www.isomatrixx.ca

Vlado:

Hi Dan, great to hear from you! I actually came across Nudura boot at a home show earlier this year. They had one-storey structure constructed of ICF blocks where people could actually see how ICF looks and feels. Archie Duiker, with whome I talked at the time, was not there but we took the opportunity to chat with the representative.

Back to your comments… Similar thought came to mind at the time. Even with wooden framing, there would be some sort of insulation in the walls. Demolishing the house means this insulation ends up in the landfill. The shorter the lifetime of the house the more of insulation in the landfill, so more polution.

However, with Green-No Green I wanted to make the following point without dragging on for too long: We did not choose ICF because it is a new, cool thing, or because it is the muscle car of home construction technologies. Instead, we looked at many things: from financial, to comfort, to construction schedule, to environmental. And having children, and being aware that environmental changes are unfortunately far worse than most of us are willing to admit, building green(er) was an important thing to us. At the end of the day, my wife and I believed and still believe that ICF is the best solution.

We hope that more and more people choose ICF, with ICF industry playing an important role in the technology gaining popularity.

Regards,

Vlado

Daryl:

Hi Vlado,

Great website. I'm building a house for myself on a 50*135 lot in Toronto. Likely a similar project to yours. I'm also considering ICF. What would you estimate was the additional construction cost of using ICF over traditional framing. I'm estimating the size of my house to be about 4500sf.

Darryl F.

Vlado:

Hi Darryl,

Thanks. I wish I had more time to put into the website. But, one of our goals was to raise awareness, not a flashy website.

Regarding the difference between traditional framing vs. all-ICF: It has been a while, but from what I remember, ICF added between 4%-7% of the total cost of the project. I have to say that so far we have had no regrets about that decision. And I remember that every time I look at our heating (gas) bill. Compared to the old house, the total gas bill divided per square foot is roughly one half of what it was for the old house. But, to be fair, some of the savings comes from the high-efficiency furnace compared to an old furnace in the old house. Either way, better insulation and better efficiency of the heating/cooling equipment work together to save dollars and the environment. And, looking at recent trends in energy prices, the only question is how much worse it is going to get in how little time.

We wish you all the best with your project. Should you decide to go with ICF, we would like to hear about your experience.

Regards,

Vlado

Daryl:

Thanks for your insight Vlado. Are their an other benefits that you recognize on a day to day basis? Did you have challenges with the design or with trades not being used to ICF?

Vlado:

The house feels a bit quieter, but that could also be just a perception – it is a common sense but I really have no data (measurements, etc.) to back this. We do not see other benefits on a day-to-day basis.

Regarding the design itself, in our case there were no challenges that we could attribute to ICF being used instead of traditional framing.

I was at the site often and I was not made aware nor I noticed ICF-related construction problems worth mentioning. But having that said, I would like to stress that rough interior framing, including how the subfloors are suspended against outer ICF walls, was all done by the ICF trade. Also, It may have made it somewhat out of ordinary for the electrician and the plumber as they could not as easily use exterior walls for plumbing and electrical. The plumber stayed away from ICF and used the interior stud framing for pipes. I liked this as I have never been a fan of placing pipes in exterior walls. The electrician did the same when he could but used a heat gun otherwise, then backfilled the gaps with foam after cables wires were laid.

Darryl:

Sorry to bug you again Vlado, but you seem like a guy that thinks like me. I'm also an engineer. I live on St. Clements Av. and bought a lot for myself on Strathallan Blvd. The lot is 50*135. I figure our houses will end up pretty similar in size, so your #s would be a good indicator for me. Any chance you have a budget together, that I could use to get a sense of what I will be up against. I'm planning on building about 4400sf over 2 floor, and was budgeting about $250/sf. That was based on traditional framing. Any insight from you would help a lot.

Vlado:

Unfortunately, the answer is not straight forward and I certainly do not want throw you off. On the one hand your budget could be very reasonable but on the other hand it could be insufficient. It is really hard to say, because it depends on so many factors. Also, different people have different preferences and consider different things to be of different importance. To illustrate how many and what kinds of things there are to consider, here are just a few not-so-obvious things, in no particular order:

- Tiles in the kitchen or bathroom: marble, travertine or ceramic? Cost varies based on material, and then based on tile format/size.

- If having tile meet hardwood, are the finished elevations/thicknesses close enough not to require raising of the thinner of the two on the entire floor to avoid step-up/step-down?

- Does the design have ground-level walkout or a below-grade garage? If yes, additional requirements might apply to the footing in such areas.

- Hollow or solid doors

- Type and width of trim and cornice molding

- Windows - can vary 2-3 times the basic ones. For example, ours were on the order of ~35K, compared to ~13K for the basic ones.

- Exterior finish: natural stone, engineered stone, stacco, brick or mix - different material and labour costs

- Coffered ceilings - more labour

- Who supplies appliances and bath/faucets i.e. is builder's margin and time included

- Etc.

As you can tell, this goes on and on.

If going with a GC, one possibility is to ask several builders to give you quotes. You can then make adjustments in finishes according to your budget and before you commit to a contract. Unfortunately, this approach does not help you decide whether to build or not as it requires plans to be ready. If you have the plans ready, that would probably imply that you have already paid for the drawings/design. Which in turn probably means that you have already decided to build anyway.

And even when you receive offers, it is good to have some extra room in the budget. There are two reasons for this. One is that the schedule of finishes is seldom that detailed and so things might come up during construction. Another reason is that people often decide to defer certain decisions for later, for whatever reason. Either can cause change in cost, more often an increase then a decrease.

Hope this helps.

Vlado